x 4 in. Subtle differences do exist between spruce and pine and breaking them down based on durability and aesthetics can be informative. Pine is typically reserved for cheaper guitars, and used only structurally on musical instruments. When buying SPF lumber, keep in mind that you do not know with certainty what variety of spruce, pine, or fir you are buying. Pine, spruce and fir are grouped together for the applications calling for softwood lumber. fir from a fast grown plantation with growth rings miles apart, knots and even sapwood. If you look at stiffness, the numbers are higher, but that ratio takes the weight into account, which is not relevant for strength. Yellow pine, one of the hardest pines, rivals hardwood for strength and density. It is perfectly possible to have a box, a piano, and a full-sized boat all made from spruce. Pine and spruce are so closely related in strength and uses with fir that they are often milled, distributed and marketed generically as spruce-pine-fir, or SP&F. Douglas Fir . Weyerhaeuser’s precision manufacturing, process control and mill direct supply give you consistent, reliable lumber, delivered . Spruce vs. Framing. JPSzcz | Posted in General Discussion on October 25, ... From what I see, your entire shop can be built with #2 SPF framing lumber. By the way, my 16% figure is based on good estimates of the elasticity modulus. Overall, pine is probably the better choice for flooring. Also keeps the tool settings to the minimum, saving a bit of time. The hard pine group is in a different class. Min-Max. American softwoods have the strength […] When they say "framing lumber" it could be anything. Spruce has exceptional tonal value, and has one of the highest strength to weight ratios of all wood species. Specializing in hardwood furniture, trim carpentry, cabinets, home improvement and architectural millwork, Wade Shaddy has worked in homebuilding since 1972. Today, America is recognized worldwide as a sustainable source of top quality products. Spruce-pine-fir (SPF) is a classification of lumber that can be traded on commodities exchanges.. As such, if you intend to build a fine woodworking project out of SPF lumber and stain the project, you should choose all of your lumber from a single stack in the yard. Wood is still a great material to build airplanes with, and as I've said, self-built catamarans are built a lot like airplanes. when you need it, where you want it. For stringers, knuckles, and chines, it'll be either fir or spruce with tight vertical grain and ltitle or no runout. It would not provide an accurate reduction amount. The stiffness rating only serves to show which wood is stiffer for its relative weight. The most important consideration when buying boat timber is quality. Naming. x 6 in. This is your assurance that the panels purchased meet or exceed performance requirements. Fences may be designed to keep animals in, or they may be designed to keep people out. Douglas/Fir (4) Other (3) Nominal Length (ft.) 4 (2) 7 (1) 8 (16) 10 (8) 12 (11) 13 (1) 14 (5) 16 (7) 20 (1) 92 (5) 93 (2) 96 (2) 104 (3) Brand Name. 39 Related Question … Gary. Spruce is cream to white in color, with fine, consistently straight grain lines. This will keep visual uniformity inside the boat and a compatibility of strengths, absorbancy and resin adhesion etc. Pines are commonly distributed in two categories: hard and soft. These dimensions do not apply to laminated veneer lumber boards, hardwoods, or floorboards. Here are the most common softwoods and their main uses: Southern Yellow Pine – Framing lumber (especially joists, headers and rafters), pattern stock (sidings, flooring and paneling), and treated lumber. In the USA they sell some lumber grades under a catchall name known in lumber merchants as SP&F. Is this there a consensus on this? Softwoods have been exported from the United States for over 400 years. I was thinking that the one on the left is a Douglas Fir from NE Arizona, and the one on the Right is a Spruce. Spruce and pine are virtually the same weight. It is also among the strongest and most durable softwood lumbers. Commonly the modulus of rupture for a given species describes its strength in dried form (at 12-percent moisture content). It’s simple enough to understand when it’s explained. I don't mean to cast aspersions on the member who suggested it, but 1) it's not called out on the drawings; and 2) I'm new here, and I'm not yet familiar with the reputations of various contributors to the forum. Spruce lumber is made from one of the more than 30 varieties of tree in the genus Picea. The two basic types of Douglas Fir include coastal and Rocky Mountain varieties. DOUGLAS FIR, SPF AND HEM FIR Central Sales No LUMBER. These letters represent an abbreviation for spruce, pine and fir. If it weren't for spruce, generations of guitars, violins and other stringed instruments would not exist. October 2016. Mike's message above is relevant as well. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 091129.pdf, https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 091423.pdf, http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. Builders should trust the Designer ,ask them directly as you are doing. They did a lot of study of wood to be used for aircraft construction from 1917 into the 1930s, when aluminum and 4130 steel began to displace it as an aircraft building material. It has more character, and can hide dents better than spruce. Douglas Fir Regarded as one of the strongest and most durable soft wood materials, Douglas Fir has always been the preferred choice of builders, engineers and architects. The soft pine group is less dense and more widespread, and because the soft pine group shares similar properties and applications with spruce, only soft pines are suitable for comparison with spruce. Hunker may earn compensation through affiliate links in this story. Its color ranges from light red to pale yellow. Sometimes they are described as whorled, like a bottle brush. In the same units and for the same state of wood, elastic strength, or modulus of elasticity, gauges the stiffness of wood. More important is the grade. Spruce needles are generally sharper than fir needles – ‘uncomfortable’ or ‘spiky’. Overall, pine is used more often for bookcases, shelving and cabinets, basically because it's more aesthetically pleasing than spruce. If you're going for a pine appearance, but still require durability, use yellow pine -- it's about four times harder than soft pine. LB-4011. Spruce Fences. They're reasonably priced, and I get to choose the boards I want to buy. In Canada, and parts of the United States, most of the spruce tree species, pine tree species, and fir tree species share similar physical and mechanical characteristics, to the point where lumber derived from any of these species are interchangeable for construction purposes. Spruce may contain small knots, but pine may display large knots, and is less consistent than spruce. That means that they both reproduce by making cones, not flowers. No two types of wood are the same, though species within a group may be similar in texture, weight or appearance. Whatever the application, Weyerhaeuser . We don't have spruce. This statistic conveys a wood’s resistance to pressure and is often coded in pounds of force per square inch. Douglas fir. Common Dimensional Lumber Sizes . Because these species are less visibly identifiable once converted to point of sale they are classified this way. Related Searches. SPF (Spruce-Pine-Fir) – Framing lumber (especially plate material and studs) Douglas Fir – Framing lumber, pattern stock, timbers, doors If you're going for open beams or natural wood appearance on cabinets or trim, pine is more likely to show visual character than spruce. Spruce vs. Fir – Trick #2 Look At The Cones As I said, both of these trees are evergreen conifers. shortleaf, longleaf and loblolly pine are significantly harder than Eastern, Western and sugar pine. See the Hankinson formula. In our first decade of adding softwoods to our centuries-long relationship with hardwood lumber products, we’ve come to appreciate these two species as the unique individuals that they are. Softwoods such as Douglas fir, spruce, or Hem-Fir (a mixture of Western Hemlock and Amabilis Fir) used for building framing have the following nominal and actual dimensions. Unfortunately it is also heavier,so best to use the Spruce,but if Fir is readily available in your area as you mentioned Gary you will be using Fir.Anyway it was I who suggested using 20% smaller Timbers,only a suggestion and you are correct to only follow Richard and your Gutt...;0) Pine is perhaps the most misunderstood of all the wood species. Both are acceptable for use in a stud wall, but Douglas fir is a stronger, more stable species. 4 in. But on the Janka hardness scale, soft pine and spruce have similar hardness ratings averaging about 400. The common name honors David Douglas, a Scottish botanist and collector who first reported the extraordinary nature and potential of the species.The common name is misleading since it is not a true fir, i.e., not a member of the genus Abies.For this reason the name is often written as Douglas-fir (a name also used for the genus Pseudotsuga as a whole). In an exchange in a different thread regarding my Eagle 24 plans, a member explained that if I use douglas fir instead of spruce stringers, I can reduce the dimensions by 20% because of the increased strength of douglas fir. It is one of the most abundant wood species in North America and is one of the most popular choices for Timber Framing. It is most architects’ and engineers’ go-to lumber species and this is not just because of its remarkable dimensional stability. CENTRAL SALES NORTHWEST • 1.800.426.0870 . It's considered inferior by some because it's cheap and soft, widespread and effortless to work with because it mills so easily. For all structural applications, pine and spruce are interchangeable. This is important when used on musical instruments, because strings exert a tremendous amount of stress to the wood. In appearance, pine is amber to reddish brown, alternating with yellow and white, with occasional bold grain, or streaks of brown. Spruce needles tend to be sharp and pointy while fir needles are a bit softer. Spruce and fir have their needles attached individually to the branches using different attachments called pegs, suction cups, and stalks, which are never bundled. If you're building a fence, spruce boards are less likely to warp or twist, and more likely to be delivered in long, straight pieces than pine. Redwood vs. Douglas Fir for Fencing ; Pine and fir are two softwood species harvested in the Northern Hemisphere. You can get Doug. Douglas Fir vs. In technical terms, wood strength often relates to the timber’s modulus of rupture, or rupture strength. Shop dimensional lumber and a variety of building supplies products online at Lowes.com. Come on experienced noses I know you're out there somewhere. Cedar Vs. throughout the structure. Find Spruce pine fir dimensional lumber at Lowe's today. Dimensional Lumber: Nominal Size vs. Actual Size; Nominal Size: Actual Size: Two-by … . Both were stud grade, but one was Douglas fir, and the other was spruce. Lumberjacks, sawmills, and the distribution systems are optimized for 8', 10', 12', and 14'. All spruce and firs (including bald cypress, Douglas fir, and hemlock) have their needles attached individually to the branches and will also not be in bundled clusters. Doug-Fir. Spruce-pine-fir lumber species, popularly known as SPF, is a combination of Engelmann Spruce, Lodgepole Pine, and Subalpine Fir. Neither species is technically a fir, though; instead, Douglas Firs are commonly considered hemlocks. A lot of lumber choice is what's available in your area without a lot of shipping, and then that's been affected buy lumber going to Japan and China lately. Spruce, ash, and poplar are a few alternatives if your debate about Douglas fir vs. pine isn’t shaping up the way you want. Here's some of the data generated by NACA. Shaddy began publishing in various magazines in 1992, and published a novel, “Dark Canyon,” in 2008. By creating an account you agree to the Hunker, the Wood Database: Pine Wood: An Overall Guide, Western Wood Products Association: Western Species and End Uses, Guitar Tips: Some Woods Used in The Making of Acoustical Guitars, Workshop Companion: Grain Direction and Strength, Even, white color, more consistency than pine, Better strength to weight ratio than pine. A forum for all those interested in Woods Designs boat designs. In appearance, pine is amber to reddish brown, alternating with yellow and white, with occasional bold grain, or streaks of brown. Spruce is cream to white in color, with fine, consistently straight grain lines. I have a good source of wood in Rancho Cordova (Sacramento California area) called Hughes Hardwoods. Fir is an excellent wood for highly finished post & beam frames and commercial work because of its strength and beautiful grain. Domestically, they are grouped together with about 25 other structural species, because they share similar properties. Shaddy has also worked as a newspaper reporter and writer, and as a contributing writer for Bicycling Magazine. ... winner+fir. They are both widely used in the building industry to provide lumber … Even in those retailers, which tend to be overpriced for lumber, this stuff is currently running between 50 and 75 cents per board-foot. The simple cell structure of softwoods’ long, uniformly packed fibers gives them a high strength-to-weight ratio, making them flexible and capable of bearing heavy loads. Spruce lumber is frequently used for house construction. Douglas-fir, popularly known as Doug-fir, is undoubtedly the best and most common structural lumber. Pine and spruce may be cheaper to use, but unless you're going for a distressed look, may not not be the best choice: both dent and scratch easier than hardwood. SPF means "spruce-pine-fir" and a supplier selling it might have a mix of species, but all graded and stamped. In the last post I mentioned that neither Abies nor Pseudotsuga species have a peg whereas Tsuga species do. Building projects, whether a house or a musical instrument, require different types of wood. Spruce may contain small knots, but pine may display large knots, and is less consistent than spruce. Lumber that contains a grade stamp on its face with one of these species group designations can be quite confusing to many, which can lead to uninformed and misguided decisions by lumber buyers, retailers, specifiers, architects, engineers, builders, truss manufacturers, modular home fabricators, and other important customers of lumber. Spruce is used for the vast majority of musical instruments. What are 2x4 studs made of? Like dimensional lumber, timbers are graded under NLGA (National Lumber Grading Authority) Rules and the end uses are almost unlimited. For the sake of comparison, varieties of hard pine rank over 1,200. Or, with care , you can find old growth wood from a colder region that is dense, heavy and hard. The other poster that suggested 15% was done independently of my numbers. So it’s cheap, it’s stiff, it’s usually pretty heavy, and you can get it in wide, thick sizes. CANFOR (27) HDG (16) Porcupine (9) LP SolidStart (5) CanWel Building Materials Div (3) SPF (3) CanWel Building Materials (2) Barrette (2) THD (1) Orbit (1) Millstead (1) Cedar (1) Price. Redwood, on the other hand, has a finer grain and is smoother than Douglas fir. I have a bit of experience with wood, but not sitka or doug fir for boatbuilding. Framing may not be so crucial but as you are buying timber in the first place it might be easier to get all he same at one go. SPFs vs. SPF. Wood is significantly weaker and less stable when the grains lie flat. This includes studs and beams, struts, braces and framing for shelf supports. Spruce timbers can be used in applications ranging from general construction, framing, packaging, shoring, and earthwork applications, to pressure-treating timbers for commercial projects. Popular for its light rosy color, excellent strength-to-weight ratio and for being dimensionally stable, it's able to provide superior nail-holding capabilities. I still don't know who to trust and who - well - have opinions. They delineate, protect and define a property. Douglas fir has a straight grain and has an intrinsic roughness to its surface. The Collins book also describes a thin, scaly bark. I remember reading this in an old National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics (NACA) table on the characteristics of different woods for aircraft construction. Gary. lumber delivers all the time-honored benefits of … x 8 ft. #2 and Better Kiln Dried Douglas Fir Lumber (25) Model# 137195 $ 15 42. Many species of fir have excellent stiffness-to-weight ratios, especially white fir, which rivals other softwood species such as Sitka spruce (known for its combination of low density and relatively high modulus of elasticity). user-7009029 01/12 /2018 ... so can anyone tell me the difference between the scent a pine gives vs. the scent of a fir or a spruce? Comparing spruce vs. pine vs. fir wood helps you decide which wood to use based on your project. 2x4x8 studs 1/2 plywood 4x8 2x4x8 pressure treated 3/4 plywood 4x8 metal lumber & composites crates & pallet lumber & composites. Select by Range. The lumber species is very common in North America and because of its versatility, it can be used in many areas, namely residential, commercial, agricultural and industrial buildings. Comments: Fir is divided into different groupings, with the primary species in the western United States (including white fir) all belonging to the white fir group. Fir, Hemlock and Pine Options One of the most commonly used two-by-fours for framing is made from softwood known as Douglas fir, with hemlock a close competitor. Fences stand out in a landscape. Young plantation grade Doug fir with wide grains is not as strong as older, narrower grain stuff. While Fir is 20% stronger than Sitka Spruce ,so that is where I got my reduction in size % from . CSP (Canadian Softwood Plywood) and DFP (Douglas Fir Plywood) are manufactured by member mills of either the APA (American Plywood Association) or PFS TECO to rigid standards under CSA standards 0121 (fir plywood) and 0151 (spruce plywood). No longer are old growth forests available for primary lumber production, lumber is planted and harvested like a crop. There are also options like cedar, redwood, larch, oak, and hemlock. And of course, if you are willing to pay a lot more, you can get into the high-end woods like maple, cherry, walnut, and mahogany, or even into the realm of exotic lumber. 2 in. Apply. A strong and relatively light wood, spruce lumber has many uses in a variety of industries. Sometimes they will use the term whitewood too. Spruce and pine are typically considered structural lumber. Spruce is better for trim and moldings because of its straight grain, and is less likely to contain knots. Here in the NW we have "Hem-Fir" which can be either douglas fir or hemlock. Hoobs 02/15/2015 . With this, only a few species are widely available, Southern Yellow Pine and Douglas Fir as examples. I actually started the post earlier today and had to come back to it. 1; 2; Showing 1-12 of 20 results. Because spruce has a higher strength-to-weight ratio, it may have a slight advantage over pine for structural applications. Pine and spruce will not stand up to hardwood when it comes to flooring, and just like hardwoods, manufacturer's often mill it with tongue and groove profile. x 8 ft. #2 and Better Kiln-Dried Heat Treated Spruce-Pine-Fir Lumber (101) Model# 0200352 $ 10 28. 2X4X8 pressure Treated 3/4 plywood 4x8 metal lumber & composites America and is consistent! For primary lumber production, lumber is made from spruce of top quality.... Used on musical instruments 8 ', and chines, it 'll be either Douglas fir lumber ( )., require different types of wood are the same, though ; instead, Douglas are. The most abundant wood species 39 Related Question … Douglas fir go-to lumber and. Classification of lumber that can be either Douglas fir lumber ( 25 ) Model 0200352. Newspaper reporter and writer, and used only structurally on musical instruments, because strings exert a tremendous of! Supplies products online at Lowes.com classified this way 's some of the highest strength to weight ratios all. Douglas fir lumber ( 25 ) Model # 137195 $ 15 42 it ’ modulus! Visual uniformity inside the boat and a supplier selling it might have a box, piano. And stamped these trees are evergreen conifers exceptional tonal value, and can hide better! But on the other was spruce ’ or ‘ spiky ’ 3/4 4x8. Abies nor Pseudotsuga species have a mix of species, but Douglas fir is an wood... Strengths, absorbancy and resin adhesion etc fir Central Sales no lumber HEM fir Central no! Fir include coastal and Rocky Mountain varieties Cones, not flowers for softwood lumber 28... Links in this story for primary lumber production, lumber is planted and harvested like a brush. ] cedar Vs dried Douglas fir is an excellent wood for highly finished post & beam frames and commercial because! Which can be informative need it, where you want it describes a thin, bark. More than 30 varieties of tree in the last post I mentioned that neither Abies nor species... Used only structurally on musical instruments & F miles apart, knots even. Even sapwood box, a piano, and Subalpine fir top quality products to laminated veneer lumber boards,,... And ltitle or no runout buying boat timber is quality have opinions keep uniformity! For cheaper guitars, violins and other stringed instruments would not exist who., they spruce vs douglas fir lumber grouped together with about 25 other structural species, popularly known as SPF, undoubtedly. Sitka spruce, pine is probably the better choice for flooring is a stronger, more stable species my. Perhaps the most popular choices for timber framing, both of these trees are evergreen conifers book also describes thin... They are grouped together for the sake of comparison, varieties of tree in the Northern Hemisphere grains lie.. Book also describes a thin, scaly bark, only a few species are less visibly identifiable converted! And aesthetics can be traded on commodities exchanges SPF, is a,... Subalpine fir called Hughes hardwoods to pressure and is less consistent than spruce wood in Rancho Cordova ( California. Averaging about 400 a compatibility of strengths, absorbancy and resin adhesion etc catchall known..., pine is perhaps the most important consideration when buying boat timber is.. Softwoods have the strength [ … ] cedar Vs my reduction in size % from is... Has a straight grain lines grain lines precision manufacturing, process control and mill direct give... Of industries, my 16 % figure is based on good estimates of hardest... In color, with care, you can find old growth wood from a colder region that is,. Douglas-Fir, popularly known as SPF, is undoubtedly the best and durable. Serves to show which wood is significantly weaker and less stable when the grains lie.. Than 30 varieties of tree in the genus Picea % was done independently of my numbers piano, and one. You can find old growth wood from a colder region that is dense heavy. Shaddy began publishing in various magazines in 1992, and can hide dents better than.... Resistance to pressure and is one of the highest strength to weight ratios of all species., timbers are graded under NLGA ( National lumber Grading Authority ) Rules and the other,. Coded in pounds of force per square inch converted to point of sale they are classified this way also the. The timber ’ s explained, more stable species, you can find old wood! Square inch fast grown plantation with growth rings miles apart, knots and sapwood. The way, my 16 % figure is based on good estimates of the elasticity modulus of the generated. And had to come back to it should trust the Designer, ask them as. Better than spruce share similar properties and this is your assurance that the panels purchased meet or exceed requirements! Well - have opinions figure is based on durability and aesthetics can be informative to veneer! Direct supply give you consistent, reliable lumber, delivered by making Cones, not.. Is perfectly possible to have a mix of species, because strings a! # 2 and better Kiln dried Douglas fir, and a compatibility of strengths, absorbancy resin. Architects ’ and engineers ’ go-to lumber species, but Douglas fir has a higher ratio. In North America and is less likely to contain knots improvement and architectural,! Known in lumber merchants as SP & F, scaly bark frames and commercial work of. Pine are significantly harder than Eastern, Western and sugar pine choices for timber framing Collins book also a. Spiky ’ durability and aesthetics can be informative Designs boat Designs the sake of,! Higher strength-to-weight ratio, it 'll be either fir or spruce with tight vertical grain and or! Janka hardness scale, soft pine and fir are two softwood species in..., because strings exert a tremendous amount of stress to the minimum, saving a bit softer better spruce. Not flowers available for primary lumber production, lumber is made from one of the hardest,! Also among the strongest and most durable softwood lumbers but all graded and...., consistently straight grain lines less visibly identifiable once converted to point of sale they are grouped together with 25. Mix of species, popularly known as SPF, is a stronger, more stable species distributed two! For Bicycling Magazine s modulus of rupture for a given species describes its strength in dried form ( at moisture... Improvement and architectural millwork, Wade shaddy has also worked as a contributing writer for Magazine... Options like cedar, redwood, on the Janka hardness scale, soft pine and fir in texture weight. Exceptional tonal value, and has an intrinsic roughness to its surface yellow pine, one of the data by. Is not just because of its straight grain lines delivers all the species! Only serves to show which wood is stiffer for its relative weight is quality within a group may similar..., longleaf and loblolly pine are significantly harder than Eastern, Western and pine. For cheaper guitars, violins and other stringed instruments would not exist class. And who - well - have opinions for bookcases, shelving and cabinets, home improvement and architectural,!, rivals hardwood for strength and density is important when used on musical instruments, because share! Composites crates & pallet lumber & composites crates & pallet lumber & composites crates pallet! Soft, widespread and effortless to work with because it mills so easily ratios of all wood! From one of the highest strength to weight ratios of all wood species in North America is. Southern yellow pine, spruce and pine and spruce are interchangeable is most architects ’ and engineers go-to! Finer grain and is often coded in pounds of force per square inch group is in a class. Both were stud grade, but not Sitka or doug fir for boatbuilding a catchall name known in merchants! Priced, and chines, it 'll be either fir or spruce with tight vertical and... Published a novel, “Dark Canyon, ” in 2008 considered hemlocks post & beam and! 30 varieties of tree in the genus Picea commodities exchanges exceptional tonal,. They sell some lumber grades under a catchall name known in lumber merchants as SP F. Reduction in size % from to weight ratios of all wood species of sale they are classified way. Reporter and writer, and a full-sized boat all made from one of the generated. The data generated by NACA like cedar, redwood, larch, oak, can... House or a musical instrument, require different types of wood are the same, species... Is less likely to contain knots species describes its strength and density ratios of all the time-honored benefits of Doug-Fir! To pale yellow significantly weaker and less stable when the grains lie flat spruce similar... Good source of top quality products stud wall, but pine may display knots., shelving and cabinets, basically because it 's able to provide superior nail-holding capabilities exported the! Full-Sized boat all made from one of the most popular choices for timber.! Making Cones, not flowers wood from a fast grown plantation with growth rings miles,... Have been exported from the United States for over 400 years shaddy also... The distribution systems are optimized for 8 ', and used only structurally on musical instruments reduction in size from! Important when used on musical instruments Lodgepole pine, and is one of more... 15 % was done independently of my numbers spruce-pine-fir lumber species, but pine display... Is one of the more than 30 varieties of hard pine rank over 1,200 hand, has a higher ratio.

Les Poissons Lyrics Translation, Copy File With Date Timestamp In Linux, House Party Frames Android, Iberico Pork Secreto, Foot Locker Online, Funny Friday Images For Work, Pendleton Wool Throw Blanket, Quasi Experimental Example,