s30v Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide. thanks thats interesting. does 1.4116 deserve the title of title of ultimate trash steel? This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. Very much appreciate you. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in metallurgy terms. This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. great work, larrin. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. LC 200N is an elite performer, with high hardness, high toughness, and off-the-charts corrosion resistance. Is 14c28n A Good Knife Steel? [Complete Steel Guide] 8am-5pm Saturday. Hi there, Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. Also known as Z-Finit, Zapp produces this steel in America. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. 440B D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. Get for a complete guide about other steel; you can read 14c28n vs 8cr13mov reviews. Or even a 7 in both categories. Where did it come from? I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. Why wouldnt it be possible to make a damascus steel out of (say) AEB-L and s90V, or wouldnt that gain the best of both? Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. I have two quick questions, The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. Your email address will not be published. Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. Marco, BSc Chem. Thanks for the Article Larrin, Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. Which knife for best? What would be the best deal to use I currently alternate between 20CV S35vn and D2. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 440A imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. 1095. Is this at the same hardness? In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. Combination of knife steel properties. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. 14c28n Steel Review - Knives & Gear So the major tradeoff is in how much carbide you want in the steel for edge retention without dropping toughness too much for the intended knife and user. Dr. Thomas is a friend of ours here at Blade HQ, and with his help, weve worked to create this knife steel guide. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. D2 is a tool steel used in industrial settings. They were two different tests (different batch of steel, different person heat treating, etc). 14C28N VG-1 is a non-powder steel made by Japanese specialty steelmaker Takefu. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. Top quality steel yields perfect toughness, edge retention, wear and corrosion resistance, an easy to sharpen, long lasting and durable everyday carry that will fast become a user favorite. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. Oh, thats great, thanks. This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. The performance of these blades are equally admirable. Why do knives make the best gifts? Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Spyderco has produced several production knives with Maxamet, and the steel debuted on the ZT0888. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) Different types of knife steel Alleima False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. Thank you for such a great article! Wear resistance comes from hardness and carbides, hard particles formed between carbon and another element like Vanadium or Tungsten. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. I guess that was before I started reading. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. I also have a video that summarizes some of the information below while also showing how some of the experiments work. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. Fine-carbide knife steels. The solid lockup and decent blade design make these two knives well suited for camping. That way you can get into the steel ratings quickly. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. 440C steel For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. Its exceedingly tough and relatively hard, but its not stainless. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. Most low alloy tool steels and carbon steels also have fine carbide structures without powder metallurgy processing. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. It can build a knife that sustains a sharp cutting edge for long periods and is sufficiently wear-resistant. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. MC66 We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. All about 14C28N Steel - HDMD Knives Blog 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Both knives were chopped through a nail. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! 14C28N is thus ideal for use in corrosive environments and challenging applications. Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. MagnaCut There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Which one is right for you? It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. There you said 7.6 for 420HC. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. Id like to quote some of your toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance for balanced midfield steels, including yours, in some data tables. Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. in relation to hardness). Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. Let the job at hand be your guide. SUS410 I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. I think this website is aimed at dispelling these kinds of assertions. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. 14C28N Vs 440C Knife - edcTopic.com Copper frame are very sturdy and machine well and take the best patina over time. Because of its abrasion-eating hardness, knives with REX 121 come at an exceptionally high price. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. 1. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? ZDP-189 can tarnish, though not as easily as 3V. Read about my tests in this article. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). D2/K110 pros/cons in 2020? - Spyderco Forums These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. They are usually chosen for their looks rather than performance. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. Bohler N690Co Stainless Steel: Is N690 a Good Knife Steel? - KnifeGuides If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. Your email address will not be published. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. AEB-L Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. D2 Leek vs. 14C28N Random Leek | BladeForums.com H1 and 420 also have excellent corrosion resistance but are limited to lower hardness and edge retention. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. You showed some pictures in this article of the effect on what we might call "effective toughness" of thinner edge angles vs thicker edges in the same steel at the same hardness. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. Knife Steel - BladeReviews.com While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. Quick-reference guide: Know your knife steels - KnivesShipFree If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. G10 In this article, we will discuss the characteristics, pros, cons, and differences between 14C28N and D2 knives to help to make the right choice. Deburring of edges often takes even longer than removing material to produce the edge. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. As such, the performance of the steel is entirely dependent upon the steels being utilized. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. And we list budget-friendly knives that have a professional style and grace to them. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. 12C27 at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind.